second generation Acura TL/CL

"JasonStern911" (JasonStern911) 04/10/2014 at 23:15 • Filed to: None

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A friend is looking for a cheap mid-size, four-door, front or all-wheel drive car. And these seem to pop up dirt cheap on Craigslist. Any oppo have personal experience with these? Are the slushboxes as unreliable as the forums, TrueDelta, and Wiki make them out to be?

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > JasonStern911 04/10/2014 at 23:17

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Ive heard the automatic transmissions in these things are quite awful unfortunately. It stopped me from buying an Accord V6 since it had this tranny. I know they were not reliable at all. Everything else on these are solid though.

Dsscats > JasonStern911 04/10/2014 at 23:29

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If you can get a manual, do. The autos tend to eat their transmissions.

JasonStern911 > Dsscats 04/10/2014 at 23:33

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I don't think they ever made them with manual transmissions. later models, yes, but not the ones that are available cheap locally on craigslist...

Dsscats > JasonStern911 04/10/2014 at 23:34

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They did. At least they did for the coupe.

JasonStern911 > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 04/10/2014 at 23:35

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honestly, the transmission failing might be worth gambling on. but some of the horror stories imply that the car violently downshifted on the freeway nearly causing an accident. that makes me fairly hesitant to recommend them. but, the internet has a tendency to exaggerate things. I mean, have you ever went online to post what isn't broken with your car?

JasonStern911 > Dsscats 04/10/2014 at 23:39

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unfortunately, four doors to haul his kids around is one of his requirements. good to know manual CLs exist, although if my local craigslist is any indication, they're fairly rare and problem free enough that their owners don't want to sell them.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > JasonStern911 04/10/2014 at 23:50

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thats how I look at a lot of things too. Millions of people have this car (or a similar one) and they dont have problems. No one goes on and posts that they have a great working transmission. You only hear the stories.

My dad stopped me from the Accord since the stories scared him.

I sound like Demuro here but they cant all be that bad.

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > JasonStern911 04/11/2014 at 00:00

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I have one :P As seen from my display name.

My transmission hasn't failed me yet, and it's 15 years old this year. Not a Type-S model, I heard all the transmissions for this TL are generally bad, but it's one of the best cars our family has ever had driving-wise. It just gets off the line easy, it's a smooth as fuck car.

All Motor Is Best Motor > JasonStern911 04/11/2014 at 00:01

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Okay so I've owned my 2001 Acura CL Type S since new. Here's what you need to know:

Type S has upgraded brakes, sway bars, a slightly better interior, and most importantly, and upgrade to 260 HP and 220 lb-ft of torque. The automatic transmissions are very unreliable. I don't hoon my car like a nutcase, and I'm on my 3rd transmission. The first was replaced under recall warranty. The second died after only about 17,000 miles (the car was at over 90,000 miles at that point. I managed to get Acura to replace the trans for labor cost only. I wrote up an analysis on the Acurazine forums about what's wrong with the automatic transmission which you can read here (and I suggest you do), but most members there will agree the AT will pop by about 70,000 miles, sometimes much sooner, sometimes much later. They're generally very unreliable. HOWEVER, the general consensus seems to be that transmissions made after 2005 are mostly absolved of their issues. That being said, many users recommend frequent transmission flushes (every oil change or there about), and some even advocate installation of a transmission cooler (I don't have one).

Other common issues with the car? Not many. The seatbelt retractors slowly go bad so they don't have enough pull to reel in the seat belts. Not a safety issue, just an annoyance. The autodimming rearview mirror can leak it's fluid internally (rarely externally as well), rendering the auto dim unfunctional and creating a visible bubble. A sway bar linkage can possibly break. Aside from the transmissions, these cars are pretty reliable, and the engines are very robust, but they do need a timing belt change at 105,000 miles.

As far as a review of the car, I can only vouch for the type S. I can easily list the problems with the car: They understeer, wheel hop out the wazoo, they lean too much, the brakes could have been a little better, the ride is just OK, the steering is a little slow with little road feel and too many turns lock to lock, road and wind noise is typical Honda, the car needed a telescoping steering wheel, the wheels are too narrow and heavy, it only came in a manual for the last year of production, the driver's side seatbelt retractor loves to go bad, and the automatic transmission was an epic dud that cost Honda and car owners millions. On the plus side, that engine makes a glorious noise and goes pretty well, the interior is so clean and easy to use (without the Nav), the back seats are actually usable for kids-teenagers, and those seats are the most comfortable I've ever sat in.

All that being said, I love my car to bits. It's very fun, the engine is absolutely glorious, and since I upgraded my struts the handling is much better (though the ride is arguably worse). It's a more engaging car to drive than any Camry, Accord, etc, and nicer than a Mazda 3 or 6 you could get for the same price. When I bought the car, there was really nothing to compare it to as far as performance in that price range, except the Toyota Solara with a TRD supercharger + wheels + brakes + suspension package. I compared the Audi A4 and A6, and even the TT, but they were either too expensive in maintenance or not nearly as fast. The 2001 Maxima was damn ugly inside and out, but could be had with a more powerful engine.

All Motor Is Best Motor > JasonStern911 04/11/2014 at 00:05

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They offered a 6sp manual in the CL for 2003 only, then the model was discontinued.

JasonStern911 > Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna 04/11/2014 at 00:07

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how often do you flush the transmission fluid? I can't help but think that neglected maintenance has something to do with the frequency of problems, or that the likelihood of the problem occurring can be reduced by more frequent preventative maintenance. I know Porsche has a 15k oil change recommendation for the 986/987/996/997, but the posters on the forums that seem to have much less problems tend to do it every 5k...

All Motor Is Best Motor > All Motor Is Best Motor 04/11/2014 at 00:07

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I wanted to add that mechanically the CL and TL are essentially identical as far as reliability and problems are concerned, and they should drive and feel almost exactly the same.

John Bulzacchelli > JasonStern911 04/11/2014 at 00:11

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I had this exact problem on my 01 CL. It would drop to 2nd gear at 65+ mph. Terrifying.

The car has 130,000 miles and is on its 3rd transmission.

All Motor Is Best Motor > JasonStern911 04/11/2014 at 00:16

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Oh, one more thing. If the model is a 2001, you can look forward to those wheels doing this.

The wheels sticks out farther than the tire and thus are very prone to curb rash. Also, they aluminum rot very badly if driven in winter states, as you can see. If they're clean, like in the picture you posted, they look nice on the car.

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > JasonStern911 04/11/2014 at 00:19

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About 2 years ago, we had our first transmission scare in that it felt like my car skipped a gear, so my dad took it into the maintenance guy where he flushed it (for the first time in forever since we bought it) and said that the part that "should've" gone wrong is still not in bad shape at all so yeah, once in 12 years? o-o For the 12 years we owned it, all of us have driven it, my mother drives relatively calmly, my dad occasionally rages and floors it, but rarely. And my parents taught me how to drive in a chaffeur kind of way because they yell at me if the revs go over 3,000 and at a stop if their heads move back and forth even more than 15 degrees, they say I didn't plan for the stop well enough. I guess our car was generally babied. Hard to imagine not driving that car sporty-ly if I was an adult and bought it myself, I miss it every day I'm not driving it while I'm in college.

JasonStern911 > All Motor Is Best Motor 04/11/2014 at 00:19

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great post. my questions to you:

1. before your transmission went, were you given warning signs? did it start to slip/take long to shift, and then eventually fail, or were you left stranded?

2. if you were given warning signs, how long before a complete failure?

3. again, if you were given warning signs, could the transmission be cheaply rebuilt if caught before a complete failure? like just be cleaned and have the clutch packs replaced?

thank you!

Doug DeMuro > JasonStern911 04/11/2014 at 00:22

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Coupe was available with a manual. DO NOT TOUCH THE AUTOMATIC. They all fail, 100% of them. Acura was covering them for a while, but I bet that's over.

All Motor Is Best Motor > JasonStern911 04/11/2014 at 12:19

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In my case, the first trans was replaced because Acura recalled the car to inspect the transmission and upgrade it with another fluid injector (to try and keep the 2-3 clutch pack cooler) or replace it if it looked worn. They replaced it under the recall when they saw it was worn. I had no warning signs of anything wrong.

My second transmission also produced no warning signs. I got lucky when it died because I was a block from home and 1st gear was still functional. I had pulled up to make a right hand turn from a stop sign and as I accelerated away it lurched when it tried to shift into 2nd, a hell of a lot of warning lights came on, and that was that.

That being said, some others on the Acurazine forums have reported warning signs (slippage, warning lights, etc). This guy's trans was slipping for some time. There can be warning signs but (and while I don't know of every case) it seems like usually problems happen abruptly.

Transmission specialists can rebuild the transmission, but it usually costs a pretty penny. One guy recently had his rebuilt for about $3600 if I remember correctly, but I've seen a couple of cases where the rebuilds didn't always turn out great. Really, the only good option is to replace the entire transmission with a new one, but that costs as much as $6000 or more.

Sadly, with all of the AT issues related to the car I can't really recommend it as good used car. It's just not worth it for someone looking for a cheap reliable DD. For an enthusiast like those you see on the Acurazine forums who's willing to take risks and make changes to try and solve the problem it's fine, but it's just a risky proposition for anyone else. If you're seriously considering one, try and find one that's recently had a NEW AT installed, and it should be a pretty low risk. I'll be sticking with mine until the trans dies, and at that point the cost of a new trans will be a lot more than the car is worth.

Volcoman > JasonStern911 04/11/2014 at 15:13

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I had one as my first car, a 2001 Acura TL. First thing I did was look into the transmission recall, and if I'm not mistaken it was only for the latter 2002-03 models, but again I could be wrong. Anyways, shit gas mileage because it weighs so much, (3500lbs, not kidding, I got maybe 16 in the city and probably 22 freeway), excellent power out of the 3.2 V6 (I'm almost convinced the J32 was made JUST for this car, as the Accord V6 is a 3.0L, and I don't know any other Honda's with that engine but I'm sure someone here can correct me), and good handling but it has some body roll. Also a super comfortable ride. I put about 50,000 (got it with 98k) miles on the car and never had a problem with the transmission or engine.

Edit: As for the cars with transmission troubles, Acura was replacing them only if you had less than 132k miles or something stupid like that.

John > JasonStern911 04/13/2014 at 20:49

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I owned a brand new 2000 CL Type-S Navi, (8 miles on the odometer) I wanted to absolutely loved it.. I owned it for there years.. oh yeah.. the sketchy part.. it went through "6" transmissions. Id be on the highway commuting home 70-80mph and the transmission would drop from 5-gear to 2-gear all the while flashing its D indicator light and destroying half shafts.. It was out of control, thank got I had the extended warranty.. Oh yeah, and there was a class action lawsuit. All of this can be GOOGLED.. I remember the 2nd time I took my car into Acura they had replacement transmission cases stacked to the ceiling (I swear). It looked like cases for military weaponry.. crazy. I was so heart broken, it was a beautiful car NightWatch Black Metallic.. It was like dating a beautiful supermodel that you are madly in love with, but she is trying to kill you at every opportunity.. it had to go.

John > John 04/13/2014 at 20:53

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Avoid the 2nd Gen CL and TL automatics.. The six speed sticks are bullet proof, I ended up buying a 2004 TL with a 6 speed stick.. never had a issue, drove it for 180,000 miles, loved it.

Bryan Fleurjuste > JasonStern911 04/14/2014 at 15:25

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If you buy the automatic versions, you need to budget $4K for the tranny. I bought mine and preemptively changed out the transmission. In all, 8K for a near mint car and tranny and I'm happy.

E5P3ED > JasonStern911 04/15/2014 at 17:13

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I recently had acquired an '03 TL 3.2 Type S. Can't say I've had any problems with the tranny (it's an auto), let alone the car as a whole so far. If I've had any trouble with it, it's because was caused by the last owners (passenger mirror can't adjust L-R for some reason; Car had an aftermarket system instead of stock, front speakers and wiring are a little suspect...). Problems and troubles aside, it's a great car, I think.

ocbrad1 used to be iamhoff but is now just wandering around > JasonStern911 04/15/2014 at 18:35

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My wife had an '03 CL (non Type-S) with the automatic. At somewhere around 45k miles, the trans suffered a complete failure and subsequent complete replacement. There was a recall/TSB out on it, so it was a complete warranty gig, but it was kinda shocking for a Honda product to fail so badly. I still dig 'em. I would suspect that any ones you find on Craigslist by this point have already had the trans replaced, so they should be ready to run for a while.

prisoners > JasonStern911 04/15/2014 at 19:02

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Avoid them. The sedan came only with the auto trans and I've known far too many people who went through them like they were cheap tires. I've had an '03 CL-S/ 6-speed manual for ten years and 191k miles with no issues beyond routine maintenance. I had the timing belt/water pump replaced at 120k and the clutch at 160k. While not perfect it's been a great experience. Front brakes are too small (car is heavy) but I upgraded to aftermarket ones and have been fine ever since. Rides a bit rough, even with Michelin Pilots but the incredible seats make up for it. Not a blistering performer but I've never owned a better highway cruiser. Plenty of power at speed and the engine is so smooth and quiet. Even after 10 years and nearly 200k miles I have no urge to replace it and genuinely enjoy driving every day.